River. Killer woman who deserves tea and dumplings.

So...Jayne/River anyone?

Wait wait wait. All the other threads are about characterizations and insights. You can't be jumping the gun into shipping madness until we've fully explored every bit of minutia about the characters and the underwear they wear.

Thanks be, I have already covered the last part of that. *cough*

But, okay, so what exactly ARE the extent of River's powers? Is she just an Empath? Empath plus precognitive? Clairvoyant? Medium? Telekinesis?

I'm done being devilish - just couldn't think of something witty to start the ball rolling.

River's 'powers' are perplexing to me. I think she's a reader and a genius but I don't think she can see into the future. I think she's brilliant at taking all cues around her - physical, people's thoughts - and bases her insights on that. Sadly it's been awhile since I've rewatched the show or seen the BDM but I can't think of any instance where she predicts the future. Maybe in the BDM when she 'sensed' the Reavers but didn't she 'sense' them after the sound of the 'repeater'?

I really dislike it when River is turned into an all-seeing, all-knowing, super but kicking hero. (who gets it on with an amoral merc twice her age). I like the idea of a traumatized, brilliant teenager who was given abilities she doesn't understand and doesn't know how to use.

Now I've messed everything up.

I'll try to delete and move it.

Again from previous PMs - Wytch:

"Sooner or later that sort of (River's) power attracts folks, Browncoats might be itching for a Joan of Arc. Purple Bellies might be wise to counter that. Where would this leave the Shepherd's neutrality??? Meantime River would just be wanting the love and growing up..."

What Wytch meant was 'River would just be wanting JAYNE's love.'

*shudder*

i plead innocent to all charges!

meantime, River - i have some ideas which i'll organize and post ASAP (soonish anyhow).
i think her growth, through various stages of adolescence and acceptance/rejection, along with discovering just who and the hell how many are hiding in her brain, should be fuel for many fics but i still can't seem to find many to read.

i've mentioned Freaks and Geeks and the character Lindsay Weir - there are interviews with Linda Cardellini (sp?) where she says (paraphrasing) "What i really liked was the mix of - someone who is on the outside, feels sort of distanced and is trying to find their self, spread their wings. But at the same time has a real love for her brother."
For those who haven't seen it; Lindsay is moody, alienated, funny and gets into fights a lot protecting her brother. Not unlike a certain Tam.

River would also of course be facing pressures (post BDM) to weaponize and/or otherwise exploit her abilities to help everyone get by.

And no. No Rayne whatsoever.
Ever.

My take on River is she's not Superwoman. It's canon, I suppose, that she has certain abilities, but I tend to downplay them in my own fics, and I don't write any mind-reading, future-predicting, telekinetic butt-kicking that cannot be explained (almost) by rational, real-world means. I want River to have to work to solve her own problems rather than to have magical skills that no antagonist can match. I concur that River is an "outsider" character -- that's the source of much of her appeal. But I think that a big source of that "outside" feeling she has is due to her intelligence; it's not all attributable to having her brain messed with at that nasty Academy. I think the isolating effects of River's genius is underexplored in most fanfic. Many intellectually gifted children feel very isolated from their peers: they're interested in intellectual subjects that their same-age peers haven't learned about yet, and so they relate better to adults or older children on an intellectual level, and yet they're still kids, and have an immaturity that matches their years. They end up feeling like fish out of water, and don't fit in anywhere. That's why River ends up feeling comfortable on Serenity -- Mal's boat full of misfits.

ebfiddler987 wrote:My take on River is she's not Superwoman.

Agreed. That would be... tedious.

And the alienation of the gifted - extends to Simon also. But yeah, River was always on the outside.

Simon, too. River moreso.

ebfiddler987 wrote:Simon, too. River moreso.

yup.

I'm actually guilty of the "superwoman" thing. The way I approach it is that the more serious River is, the more scary she (and her solutions to problems) becomes. In that way River becomes something of a wildcard - she's going to somehow eventually get people to the best ending possible, but that ending might not always be a GOOD one, and in the process you think that things are getting worse instead of better. Under certain circumstances she almost seems to become a force of nature, and it becomes concerning that she might become a danger to her allies as much as to her enemies.

I basically use a lot of tropes from darker takes on the fair folk and also use The Morrigan as an inspiration.

very much agree on the River misfit thing.

Bytemite wrote:

I basically use a lot of tropes from darker takes on the fair folk and also use The Morrigan as an inspiration.

Nifty!

There's also something to be said that just because a character is powerful, their problems don't have to become trivial. Instead, if anything their problems should become even bigger.

But... Uh, yeah, Even I'm not going to have River running around blowing up planets by kicking them. : )

Except in crack fic. Because that actually sounds kind of awesome.

But I can also appreciate a River who just outsmarts her opponents, like what she did to Jubal.

Byte - i'm loving these character insights from you and Gillie and everyone. just to say that sorry, i'm in reading mode (when i can see!) and might take a while to hunt down my once noodled reckonings on them all, which are stored... somewhere.

Bytemite wrote:There's also something to be said that just because a character is powerful, their problems don't have to become trivial. Instead, if anything their problems should become even bigger.

But... Uh, yeah, Even I'm not going to have River running around blowing up planets by kicking them. : )

Except in crack fic. Because that actually sounds kind of awesome.

ah, remember this? never gets old and makes me happy still

But I can also appreciate a River who just outsmarts her opponents, like what she did to Jubal.

realistically i see that girl as having quite a dark arc;
she has to balance the normal perils of post adolescent growth with hardcore PTSD
and the needs of Mal for a weapon and the relationship shift with Simon and the various, um, echos in her head etc.
issues. many issues.

and she was always a brat supposedly - and her handling of Badger was clever and funny - but kinda creepsome.

also; sidebar:
Not a Rayne shipper, in fact not a River shipper at all really - but one nice element in common between River and Jayne is their sensory input; River likes to touch and feel her way around* (see Joss commentary comparing this with Early also) as does Jayne.

*am i alone in seeing a lot of Dru in her???

I love xkcd.

Bytemite wrote:I love xkcd.

same here.

I like to think that after the events of the movie Mal is more sensitive about not using River as a weapon, and that's why she's piloting in the end scene. Though she still ends up choosing to be a weapon to save people of the crew now and then.

Inara is around which tempers Mal's tendency to deliberately piss people off (like Simon) and be Mr. Darkside.

Bytemite wrote:I like to think that after the events of the movie Mal is more sensitive about not using River as a weapon, and that's why she's piloting in the end scene. Though she still ends up choosing to be a weapon to save people of the crew now and then.

Inara is around which tempers Mal's tendency to deliberately piss people off (like Simon) and be Mr. Darkside.

i completely agree (although in my head Inara leaves for a time post BDM) - but that still leaves tricky growith ahead...
i see Mal has having some days where he's more sensitive than others; and that every time River or he makes the choice, either way, there are ramifications and no guarantees that the same decision will be made next time (next episode).
weapon is a loaded phrase after all.

Bytemite wrote:
But... Uh, yeah, Even I'm not going to have River running around blowing up planets by kicking them. : )

Except in crack fic. Because that actually sounds kind of awesome.

That sounds all kinds of awesome. What do I have to do to get you to write that crack fic?

What had they done? The stars had gone out, plucked from the M-strings vibrating in space like hearts aglow by Blue Hands. The worlds wept under the frozen ashes. This was an afront, acheruntis pabulum, they come from the void to eat, to consume. Rise up again like marionettes, hungering.

She screamed with the voices of the damned, her desperate battle against the inevitable, salvation from a worse fate in destruction. Even now they gathered and brought their heel to bear.
- - - - -

River had become a whirlwind of kicks and splatters of frozen diary. Simon sighed and paid the ice planet man.

Bytemite wrote:What had they done? The stars had gone out, plucked from the M-strings vibrating in space like hearts aglow by Blue Hands. The worlds wept under the frozen ashes. This was an afront, acheruntis pabulum, they come from the void to eat, to consume. Rise up again like marionettes, hungering.

She screamed with the voices of the damned, her desperate battle against the inevitable, salvation from a worse fate in destruction. Even now they gathered and brought their heel to bear.
- - - - -

River had become a whirlwind of kicks and splatters of frozen diary. Simon sighed and paid the ice planet man.

Insane! *approves*

Bytemite wrote:Simon sighed and paid the ice planet man.

OMG

Some day though I will post something with no internal logic, and over the top planet kicking explosions, and River will be River in name only.

It will happen. We can only just prepare ourselves for that day when all the seven hells open their mouths and sing the song that will end the heavens.