Using Chinese in fanfic

So, do you? Use Chinese words and phrases in your fanfic?

This is an aspect of the Firefly 'Verse that is canon -- all the Firefly characters are depicted as using Chinese on occasion. But integrating it into fanfic that is written in English and intended primarily for English-language readers can be a challenge.

So, do you use Chinese words or phrases in your fic? If so, do you stick to phrases that were used in the original show -- such as 请进 qǐng jìn [come in] or 懂吗 Dǒng ma? [Understand?] -- or do you introduce other words or phrases?

If you introduce new words or phrases, what's your source? Are you a Chinese speaker? (I'm not, so I have to look things up.) Have you studied Chinese? Do you have a Chinese-speaking friend who helps you with correct usage? Do you look things up online?

Regardless of whether or not you use Chinese phrases in your fic, how do you feel as a reader about Chinese phrases in Firefly fanfics? Love 'em? Hate 'em? Do you have opinions about the mechanics of using Chinese in a fic you're reading -- i.e. use characters or don't use characters, transliterate using pinyin or phonetically (eg. gǒushǐ vs. go-se), and do you prefer the translation to be in text in parentheses, in a vocabulary list at the beginning or end, or in mouse-overs? Or do you think it ought to be evident from context what it means, no translation necessary?

So here's a thread to express your opinions about using Chinese in Firefly fanfic.

Neat topic!

As a reader:

I'm a big fan of mouse-overs! Parentheses just disrupt the flow of reading, though less so than having to scroll down to understand what was just said. If it's whole or relevant sentences, I tend to prefer them just being plain English if mouseovers are not available. Generally, a little goes a long way. The show struck a reasonable balance by using it sparingly and only in situations where context was enough to disclose the content. (i.e. Inara just said something rude to Mal. Wash is cussing up a storm. etc.) Aaaand I'm going to vote pinyin or phonetic transcription. Characters are pretty but I cannot imagine the words being spoken, which again disrupts my flow of reading.

Apparently, I am all about the flow.


As a writer:

I don't know how to do mouseovers, so by my own preference, there is no way I could use it extensively. Even if I wanted to. I have my doubts about the correctness of the Chinese used even on the show (though I have zero actual knowledge to back that up) and I would feel horribly self-conscious about grammer and context-appropriate use if I attempted anything complex on my own. I tend to stick to single words familiar from the show, particularly endearments or short common phrases. Meimei. Dong ma. That sort of thing. Easily recognised. Sometimes it has the added bonus of invoking a certain mood. "Dong ma" was always used aggressively on the show, so that's probably the only way I would use it in fic.

"Wei" ("Hey") is possibly my favorite. Versatile!

Agent Rouka wrote:"Wei" ("Hey") is possibly my favorite. Versatile!

Me too! I like that one.

To answer my own questions:

As a reader, I definitely like mouse-overs best. I find it irritating to have to scroll down (or up) to find out what something means. Parentheses also annoy me, because I feel like I've read the word too many times. Not having a translation, and just going by context, is also okay, but sometimes I have no clue what the phrase means. But I like having Chinese words and phrases in the stories, as it adds something to the atmosphere, and feels authentic and right for the Firefly 'Verse.

As a writer, I looked to other fanfics for my model before deciding how to do it in the stories I posted. I had been writing (and including Chinese phrases) for a few months before I read anybody else's fanfic, and didn't post any of my own for about a year, so I had plenty of time to consider the models. I liked Guildsister's use of characters. (She uses a very limited number of Chinese words, characters only, listed in a header glossary). But I didn't like that I didn't know how to pronounce them. I *loved* mouse-overs, and will be forever grateful to Mal4Prez for explaining in detail how to put them in. I'm kind of a language geek, so it was kind of a given that I would want to use at least some Chinese in my stories.

To me, nothing says "These people all speak Chinese as a matter of course" more than using Chinese characters in the text. Although I haven't studied Chinese, I studied Japanese for quite a few years, so using characters is something that I find kind of fun. I certainly find it fun to look up phrases and new words. I mostly try to keep it limited and understandable by context, but sometimes I go overboard.

But I don't like not knowing how to say the word, so I also put in pinyin. So a Chinese phrase will come out like this in context: “What in the ’Verse is that 废话 fèihuà, River?” Mal exclaimed. “It’s horrible!”
On Fireflyfans.net, I put in a mouse-over translation, but fanfiction.net and this site (alas) do not permit mouse-overs, so I have to remove them. Maybe I'm just as bad as the parentheses people, because I use a character + pinyin so I'm writing it twice anyway! lol.

I do have a strong opinion on transliteration systems. Pinyin, please. This is standard, easily pronounced, and look-up-able. "hóuzi de pìgu" I can look up and pronounce; "HOE-tze duh PEE-goo" offends my eyes, almost as bad as if I had 2 reed it in txt spk.

Sometimes. I think sometimes people overuse the chinese, like having characters use yes and no and sorry all the time. It's still okay, but I think that, while sometimes those words were ued in the show, they were only used sparingly. Rather, chinese words tended to be more for idioms or to replace colourful euphemisms or vulgarity/cursing. So I only use it for that, and so I don't often have more than one or two chinese words in one character's point of view section.

I don't use mouseovers though because I try to keep the phrases in context, also because I can't get the formatting to work for me. Not sure if it's my browser or what. But I use accented pinyin for a similar reason, because then people can look it up if they want to know what it means anyway.

Bytemite wrote:like having characters use yes and no and sorry all the time.

And there's a funny thing. In Chinese, there's no word for "yes" or "no" -- the online translators aren't quite accurate on that point. Using the negative word "不 bù" by itself doesn't make grammatical sense. It kind of means "not" or "negative" to whatever it modifies, rather than "no." So instead of answering a question like "Is it big?" with "不 bù," in Chinese, they'd say "不是 bù shì (It is not)" or "不 大 bù dà (Not big)." The word that most ficwriters use for "yes" (是 shì) is actually just the verb of being ("is") in its non-negative form.
(ebfiddler the picky grammarian strikes again!)

ebfiddler987 wrote:

Bytemite wrote:like having characters use yes and no and sorry all the time.

And there's a funny thing. In Chinese, there's no word for "yes" or "no" -- the online translators aren't quite accurate on that point. Using the negative word "不 bù" by itself doesn't make grammatical sense. It kind of means "not" or "negative" to whatever it modifies, rather than "no." So instead of answering a question like "Is it big?" with "不 bù," in Chinese, they'd say "不是 bù shì (It is not)" or "不 大 bù dà (Not big)." The word that most ficwriters use for "yes" (是 shì) is actually just the verb of being ("is") in its non-negative form.
(ebfiddler the picky grammarian strikes again!)

That's exactly the sort of grammar paranoia I meant. It's so easy to mess it up!

And Byte, I could not agree more about the level of frequency.

ebfiddler987 wrote:

Bytemite wrote:like having characters use yes and no and sorry all the time.

And there's a funny thing. In Chinese, there's no word for "yes" or "no" -- the online translators aren't quite accurate on that point. Using the negative word "不 bù" by itself doesn't make grammatical sense. It kind of means "not" or "negative" to whatever it modifies, rather than "no." So instead of answering a question like "Is it big?" with "不 bù," in Chinese, they'd say "不是 bù shì (It is not)" or "不 大 bù dà (Not big)." The word that most ficwriters use for "yes" (是 shì) is actually just the verb of being ("is") in its non-negative form.
(ebfiddler the picky grammarian strikes again!)

Good points. I mostly see "bu qu" used for no. And now that I think of it, I'm not sure that one was really used on the show.

I was talking to a friend who has studied Chinese, and she reminded me of something I was vaguely aware of, but had forgotten. Chinese is *full* of homophones -- words that sound the same but have different meanings. And I don't mean tones! No, this is not the difference between mā = mother vs mǎ = horse.
This is mǎ 玛 = Agate
but mǎ 码 = Yard
and mǎ 马 = Horse
and mǎ 蚂 = Ant
The same word has different meanings, and it's only the character (and the context) that indicate which meaning is intended. This gives rise to puns -- you might call a particularly tiny horse "mǎ" and fully intend the "ant" meaning to come across. My friend pointed out that Chinese people are inordinately fond of puns of this sort, and slip them in all the time.

New layers of fun.

Might toss that in to the cattle drive or wild horse fic I've had in mind...